Comments on: The Unemployed Flocking to Grad School – A Bad Idea that Won’t Die

By: Adam

Adam — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:35:40 +0000

As for the arguement that statistics show that those who have a degree earn more, well consider this, people who come from more connected families can afford to go to school for longer and through their family’s status can achieve higher paying jobs. Example Detroit MI. not alot of people from that city going to college (no offense) and definitely going to be on the lower end of earnings. Allowing people (especially lower and middle class) to go immensely in debt for essentially a list of books to read and a piece of paper is recipe for disaster.

By: Adam

Adam — Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:27:30 +0000

I believe are education system is experiencing three market failures, and thus should not be allowed to operate under free market principles.
1.) Individuals desire to attend more prestigous colleges, prestigous colleges are created by prestigou faculty. Prestigous faculty are created by researching and publishing works. Students end up paying astronomical tuition rates where only a fraction of that money is being spent on teaching. i.e Professors only teach a few hours a week and dont teach much. Competition causes all universities to follow this process and tuition goes up and students get screwed.
2.) Education is worthless unless it increases workers productivity. a.) In college many students pick up bad habits, drinking, partying, late nights etc.. decreasing productivity. b.) Most things you learn in college will never be useful in a working environmeent and education is thus a way to show that you are capable of learning.
3.) when few went to college, showing that you could learn is valuable, but when everybody goes to school and shows the same thing, a college degree shows it true colors. Furthermore, this generation operating under the false premise of returns to education, and lack of jobs for recent college graduates, choose to go to graduate school. Entrance into all graduate schools are artificially inflated by a poor job market, why sit at home when you can get in education. Well because like my law school tuition has increased 20+% in three years while the return has plummetted 20%. Obviously a market failure has occurred where the price of one thing increases while it’s value decreases. Our economy will hit another bubble (like housing) because our youth have mortgaged their future on something that will not appreciate, but in fact depreciate in value, like say houses

By: Eve

Eve — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:09:38 +0000

I think this totally depends on your field/profession. For my case, if I were to be laid off tomorrow, yes I would go back to school full time to get a pHd. I’m in the science field, which higher education is so important in landing a good job in the industry. Most science programs will pay you a stipend to work as an assistant while you attend full time. So, I won’t be adding any more student loans, making money to survive, and I’m getting the necessary education I need to advance in my career path.

By: cjbr549

cjbr549 — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:49:46 +0000

The only thing that was pointed out by you both, Masterpo and Rick, is that higher education leads to higher pay. Statistically. That does not mean that every individual that gets an advanced degree makes more money, just that in aggregate higher education equals higher pay. But ROI takes into account the INVESTMENT as well as the return. That means that you have to invest money (tuition and fees, books) and time (time not spent perusing a career that does not require a degree). This calculation would be very different for an 18 year old high school graduate and a 40 year old master machinist. It would also be very different for someone contemplating a degree in English vs. a degree in Engineering. Also, will they be going to an in state public school or a private school? Don’t get me wrong, I am all for higher education, I think it helps our country as a whole. But for a given individual not taking into account ROI can leave you spending more time and money on a degree that will not pay for itself in the long run, vs. not going to college and learning a skill through OJT. As stated in my previous comment, I think that if done intelligently that getting an advanced degree during the recession will pay off for many, by making them more competitive than they would otherwise be a year or two from now.

By: Rick Beagle

Rick Beagle — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 03:23:45 +0000

Again, MasterPo is absolutely correct. Every study on the matter shows that furthering your education will pay for itself over the course of your career. What continues to baffle me is the presumption by graduates that they have somehow “earned” a job by their sheer possession of a degree. There are a lot of graduates that “graduate” to barely above minimum wage completely unaware that their degrees need to be backed up with hard work, and a good work ethic.
Peace.
Rick Beagle

By: MasterPo

MasterPo — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 04:51:45 +0000

OK, let’s do ROI.

Look at any study you want.

Historically speaking, taken as a group, people with more education make more $$$ over their life times than those with less or none. Period.

Throughout history going back even thousands of years those with formal education (by the standard of their day) always were the more affluent and leaders of the society. It’s only now in the early 21st century (and only in America!) we are telling young people to spend their golden youthful years of achievement, not to work and make something of themselves, but to “give back” to others instead. Now that’s BULLL.

Even in this economy there are employers who will only higher Bachelor degreed people for some jobs, Masters degreed for others, and PhD’d for yet others. Look at the upper ranks of any mid-size or major company. ALL their senior managers and higher have an MBA at least. We can argue the real value in terms of hands-on knowledge gained from the Masters degree for the position. But the fact remains if they didn’t have a Masters they weren’t going to get those positions. Period. Right there you have got your ROI.

By: cjbr549

cjbr549 — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:42:08 +0000

Whether it is a good or bad idea depends on what and how you are going to do it. Masterpo, BULL. I fully agree with TML on the application of ROI to higher education. Getting a Masters just to have more letters on your card is dumb, dumb, and dumb. There is one thing to factor in here that was not by TML, though. That is the “Freshness” of your undergrad degree. I don’t hear this talked about much, but in a competitive job market, the speed at which you get a job out of college is critical. As soon as the next batch of graduates hit the job market, your chances of getting a job just dropped. After a year or two you might as well have not even gone to school to begin with, because you will be seen by employers as tainted (So why couldn’t he get a job to begin with?). This was my experience. I graduated with an undergrad degree in engineering just as my sector of the job market went in the toilet, with two huge industry consolidations that laid off two entire corporate engineering staffs. I did crap jobs for about two and a half years, then decided to go back and get my Masters in the same field as my BS. Through a teaching fellowship (as explained by kitty earlier) and going to the same state school as I went for my BS I was able to go with NO additional student loans. I was also able to forebear my student loans I had from my BS. I started at about 12% higher salary where I eventually went to work due to the advanced degree. I think if your Bachelors is in a field that would normally pay fairly well, going back for a Masters (and not running up more student loan debt) is a good strategy. I will give you a “Fresh” degree; hopefully at about the time the economy is picking up and it will forebear your loans until you are (hopefully) in a better situation to pay for them. But if the field that your BS was in has an average starting pay in the 20k to 30k range, you should really think about just joining the military. At least there you can get a commission with any degree and the pay is not too shabby. Course, you get shot at and people try to blow you up, but hey, you don’t get that kind of excitement in a civilian job (well, except the post office:).