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	<title>Comments on: Foreclosure and Personal Character</title>
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	<link>http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/09/22/foreclosure-personal-character/</link>
	<description>The Hard Truth about Money and Personal Finance</description>
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		<title>By: Funny about Money</title>
		<link>http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/09/22/foreclosure-personal-character/comment-page-1/#comment-6206</link>
		<dc:creator>Funny about Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughmoneylove.com/?p=4616#comment-6206</guid>
		<description>&quot;Stripping&quot; of structures by foreclosed owners -- or departing renters, for that matter -- has been going on for a long time, long before the present mortgage crisis. 

IMHO, as long as you owe a mortgage on a house, you &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; own the house. The bank co-owns the house. You may own a small share of it, in the form of the principal you&#039;ve put into it. But as long as you owe anything on it, you are not the sole owner.

Would you rip off everything in a structure if you&#039;d borrowed the money from your dad to buy a house and he was forced to sell it to someone else because you couldn&#039;t pay him back? If you wouldn&#039;t steal from a family member, why should you steal from any lender?

While I have no sympathy with the crooked lenders who issued the flurry of bad loans that helped bring on the current recession, two wrongs don&#039;t make a right. Just because someone else is a crook and a jerk doesn&#039;t mean you have to be a crook and a jerk, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Stripping&#8221; of structures by foreclosed owners &#8212; or departing renters, for that matter &#8212; has been going on for a long time, long before the present mortgage crisis. </p>
<p>IMHO, as long as you owe a mortgage on a house, you <i>don&#8217;t</i> own the house. The bank co-owns the house. You may own a small share of it, in the form of the principal you&#8217;ve put into it. But as long as you owe anything on it, you are not the sole owner.</p>
<p>Would you rip off everything in a structure if you&#8217;d borrowed the money from your dad to buy a house and he was forced to sell it to someone else because you couldn&#8217;t pay him back? If you wouldn&#8217;t steal from a family member, why should you steal from any lender?</p>
<p>While I have no sympathy with the crooked lenders who issued the flurry of bad loans that helped bring on the current recession, two wrongs don&#8217;t make a right. Just because someone else is a crook and a jerk doesn&#8217;t mean you have to be a crook and a jerk, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Party Pooper</title>
		<link>http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/09/22/foreclosure-personal-character/comment-page-1/#comment-6029</link>
		<dc:creator>Party Pooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughmoneylove.com/?p=4616#comment-6029</guid>
		<description>In a society where homeowners generally think they are superior to renters, I find it amusing that anyone would think of themselves as being in the owner &quot;caste&quot; just because they have a mortgage and their house is collateral. 

Sorry, but if you got a mortgage with zero or very little down, you have no skin in the game, and you are a tenant to the bank.

And in the case of the neighbors who &quot;no doubt thrilled&quot; by these stripped-clean houses lowering their property values, I would suggest not making comparisons to two years ago, since at that time the market was insanely inflated anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a society where homeowners generally think they are superior to renters, I find it amusing that anyone would think of themselves as being in the owner &#8220;caste&#8221; just because they have a mortgage and their house is collateral. </p>
<p>Sorry, but if you got a mortgage with zero or very little down, you have no skin in the game, and you are a tenant to the bank.</p>
<p>And in the case of the neighbors who &#8220;no doubt thrilled&#8221; by these stripped-clean houses lowering their property values, I would suggest not making comparisons to two years ago, since at that time the market was insanely inflated anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/09/22/foreclosure-personal-character/comment-page-1/#comment-6028</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughmoneylove.com/?p=4616#comment-6028</guid>
		<description>And I said it was wrong. 

I still stand by my premise that if I wanted to make changes to my home, I can do that. I base this on looking at some of the butt ugly colors some people in my neighborhood have chosen to paint their homes, which I believe has got to drop their property value somewhere in the lines of 150%. ;)

Couldn&#039;t the damages be included in a similar judgment? Not that it matters, judgments are worthless if there&#039;s just no money to be recovered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I said it was wrong. </p>
<p>I still stand by my premise that if I wanted to make changes to my home, I can do that. I base this on looking at some of the butt ugly colors some people in my neighborhood have chosen to paint their homes, which I believe has got to drop their property value somewhere in the lines of 150%. <img src='http://toughmoneylove.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Couldn&#8217;t the damages be included in a similar judgment? Not that it matters, judgments are worthless if there&#8217;s just no money to be recovered.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. ToughMoneyLove</title>
		<link>http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/09/22/foreclosure-personal-character/comment-page-1/#comment-6027</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. ToughMoneyLove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughmoneylove.com/?p=4616#comment-6027</guid>
		<description>Andrea and others: Most if not all mortgage and deed of trust notes require the homeowner to preserve the value of the collateral during the term of the loan. That is why, for example, you are obligated to maintain homeowner&#039;s insurance. The homeowner promises in the loan agreement not to take actions that would impair the value of the collateral. Ripping everything out of the inside - foreclosure or not - is a contractual breach of that promise. I am not defending heartless lenders who will not work with suffering homeowners. But what benefit is there to anyone in fighting heartless conduct with illegal conduct?  As for stopping payments before you have to so that you can make other survival plans, I am OK with that because it still leaves the lender recourse - the unpaid amounts can be included in a post-foreclosure deficiency judgment should the lender choose to use that remedy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrea and others: Most if not all mortgage and deed of trust notes require the homeowner to preserve the value of the collateral during the term of the loan. That is why, for example, you are obligated to maintain homeowner&#8217;s insurance. The homeowner promises in the loan agreement not to take actions that would impair the value of the collateral. Ripping everything out of the inside &#8211; foreclosure or not &#8211; is a contractual breach of that promise. I am not defending heartless lenders who will not work with suffering homeowners. But what benefit is there to anyone in fighting heartless conduct with illegal conduct?  As for stopping payments before you have to so that you can make other survival plans, I am OK with that because it still leaves the lender recourse &#8211; the unpaid amounts can be included in a post-foreclosure deficiency judgment should the lender choose to use that remedy.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/09/22/foreclosure-personal-character/comment-page-1/#comment-6026</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I saw a piece on this a while back. 

The people in these homes do own the home, yes, just like I own my home. If I wanted to rip out the downstairs bathroom, sell the tub, toilet, sink etc. and turn that room into a closet, I would be within my rights to do so. I don&#039;t have to get an OK from the bank who holds my mortgage. 

On the other hand, homeowners who know that foreclosure is imminent and who rip out those fixtures out of revenge ... well, I think that&#039;s misguided and wrong.

On the OTHER other hand, being in a position of having had a recent job loss in the family that severely impacted our income and therefore in the process of trying to get a modification to our loan ... which was not even close to being a debt burden with our income level before ... these banks are not winning friends and influencing people. I won&#039;t go into the ridiculously obstructive tactics they&#039;ve built into their processes here, but I can guarantee you that I&#039;ve had some not so kind thoughts about what I would like to do to them, and where I would like to shove a piece of stripped piping.

If the banks are willing to let the homes go into foreclosure so they can reclassify the debt as toxic and let taxpayers pick up the tab, I don&#039;t see this as being a matter of personal character ONLY for the homeowner. People are mad, and I think rightly so. 

Myself, if I knew it was going to get to a point where my home was going to be foreclosed because the bank was being uncooperative, I&#039;d probably stop making payments before I was really forced to, stick that money in a mattress and set it aside for the expenses I&#039;m gonna have renting a place. Bad character or rational behavior, TML?

And yeah, I&#039;m with Rick ... sleeping in tents, come on. That&#039;s a bit much. You&#039;re way too intelligent to make a statement like that. You know the reality of what is going on with people is not just one general statement of character, it&#039;s thousands of individual stories. I&#039;m sure if you randomly picked a few of them to sit down and talk to, you&#039;d have a harder time condemning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a piece on this a while back. </p>
<p>The people in these homes do own the home, yes, just like I own my home. If I wanted to rip out the downstairs bathroom, sell the tub, toilet, sink etc. and turn that room into a closet, I would be within my rights to do so. I don&#8217;t have to get an OK from the bank who holds my mortgage. </p>
<p>On the other hand, homeowners who know that foreclosure is imminent and who rip out those fixtures out of revenge &#8230; well, I think that&#8217;s misguided and wrong.</p>
<p>On the OTHER other hand, being in a position of having had a recent job loss in the family that severely impacted our income and therefore in the process of trying to get a modification to our loan &#8230; which was not even close to being a debt burden with our income level before &#8230; these banks are not winning friends and influencing people. I won&#8217;t go into the ridiculously obstructive tactics they&#8217;ve built into their processes here, but I can guarantee you that I&#8217;ve had some not so kind thoughts about what I would like to do to them, and where I would like to shove a piece of stripped piping.</p>
<p>If the banks are willing to let the homes go into foreclosure so they can reclassify the debt as toxic and let taxpayers pick up the tab, I don&#8217;t see this as being a matter of personal character ONLY for the homeowner. People are mad, and I think rightly so. </p>
<p>Myself, if I knew it was going to get to a point where my home was going to be foreclosed because the bank was being uncooperative, I&#8217;d probably stop making payments before I was really forced to, stick that money in a mattress and set it aside for the expenses I&#8217;m gonna have renting a place. Bad character or rational behavior, TML?</p>
<p>And yeah, I&#8217;m with Rick &#8230; sleeping in tents, come on. That&#8217;s a bit much. You&#8217;re way too intelligent to make a statement like that. You know the reality of what is going on with people is not just one general statement of character, it&#8217;s thousands of individual stories. I&#8217;m sure if you randomly picked a few of them to sit down and talk to, you&#8217;d have a harder time condemning.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Beagle</title>
		<link>http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/09/22/foreclosure-personal-character/comment-page-1/#comment-5991</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Beagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughmoneylove.com/?p=4616#comment-5991</guid>
		<description>PW...  what you are just making stuff up?  Geez, get a grip.  It&#039;s like you are dying to yell ACORN whether it makes sense, applicable to the discussion or even relevant to the person to which you yell it to.  Gawd, you really have lost your marbles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PW&#8230;  what you are just making stuff up?  Geez, get a grip.  It&#8217;s like you are dying to yell ACORN whether it makes sense, applicable to the discussion or even relevant to the person to which you yell it to.  Gawd, you really have lost your marbles.</p>
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		<title>By: PW</title>
		<link>http://toughmoneylove.com/2009/09/22/foreclosure-personal-character/comment-page-1/#comment-5990</link>
		<dc:creator>PW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughmoneylove.com/?p=4616#comment-5990</guid>
		<description>I bet those people &quot;stripping&quot; were told to do this and how to do it by ACORN.  Chew on that statement, Beagle.  Now don&#039;t be &quot;snapping&quot; at me!  I just wonder what Obama group let you off their leash!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bet those people &#8220;stripping&#8221; were told to do this and how to do it by ACORN.  Chew on that statement, Beagle.  Now don&#8217;t be &#8220;snapping&#8221; at me!  I just wonder what Obama group let you off their leash!!</p>
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